SCR 2010 EMISSIONS FAQ
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Does Cummins utilize EGR in their 2007 engines? Will this system differ on the 2010 Emissions Cummins engine?
Cummins does use EGR and DPF in current 2007 product, we will continue to use EGR + DPF and SCR in our 2010 solution. However, we will not use "extreme" or "massive" EGR for our solution for 2010 which is less fuel efficient due to reducing the combustion temperature in the cylinder. We will employ SCR to lower NOx in order to keep fuel efficiency at optimal levels for our end users.
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What diagnostics are provided with the 2010 Emissions SCR system for the Cummins engine and the dosing?
Yes, there are 'new' fault codes that have been developed to support proper diagnosis and repair of the SCR system including the dosing system.
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How do the engine and emissions systems communicate?
Via datalink connection from the engine Electronic Control Module through the vehicle chassis wiring connecting to the doser control module and a few sensors located on the vehicle.
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When will the 2010 Emissions Cummins engines begin in production and when will they begin to be provided in buses?
Cummins 2010 solutions will be available Jan 1, 2010 for all engine platforms and markets.
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What will the warranty coverage be for the 2010 Emission Cummins engines and for the SCR system and are there anyextended warranties available?
Warranty and Extended Warranty plans for Cummins Engines will be comparable to current offerings and terms.
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Will the 2010 Emissions Cummins engines be compatible with BioDiesel?
Cummins products are compatible with up to B20. 2010 products will also maintain the ability to use up to B20.
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Will the B50 life of 500,000 miles on the 2010 Emissions Cummins engine be affected with the use of BioDiesel?
Up to B20 is approved for Cummins 2010 products and will not affect engine life.
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What training is required for the technician to service the 2010 Emissions Cummins engines & when will it be provided?
The Cummins service training plan/program will be very similar to the approach taken with the launch of our '07 products. Technicians will be offered both self study as well as hands-on training at Cummins distributors. The role out of Cummins training plan/schedule will begin late in 2009.
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Fuel Economy was identified as 5 to 9 percent over that for Extreme EGR. Does this include the added cost of DEF?
No…it does not include the cost of diesel exhaust fluid, this is strictly fuel economy advantage. Refer to the WebEx for cost advantages.
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Stating a 5 to 9 percent fuel economy advantage over Extreme EGR, what Extreme EGR engine is that compared to?
This is related to Cummins own engine development experience comparing an EGR-only solution to our current SCR approach.
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What location and routing were used to determine the fuel economy ratings of the engines?
This is a combination of Cummins own test cell evaluations and engineering vehicle development as well as actual customer field test experiences.
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Is there a fuel economy difference from the 2007 Emission Cummins engine and the new 2010 Emission Cummins engine?
2007 and 2010 midrange Cummins products will be comparable in fuel economy, however if Cummins would have gone to 'in-cylinder' we would have lost 5-9% in fuel economy.
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Will the SCR system provide for cooler exhaust?
Yes, but it is dependent on actual duty cycle and actual load factor.
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Will the SCR system provide for cooler exhaust?
Yes, but it is dependent on actual duty cycle and actual load factor.
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Will the 2010 Emissions Cummins engines be used in Canada?
Yes, the 2010 emissions engines will be used in both the US and Canada.
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What is the added weight to the bus with addition of the SCR system? Will buses be overweight in some states and provinces?
The expected weight gain on a school bus including a full tank of Diesel Exhaust Fluid will be approximately 200 to 250 pounds dependent upon the size of the DEF tank.
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What are all the components that are added to the bus for the SCR system?
SCR reactor, decomposition pipe, DEF Doser, Doser Control Unit, DEF tank, DEF fluid lines, NOx sensors, a coolant circuit for the SCR system, wire harnesses and related parts to attach and support the system.
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Will the amount of Nitrogen exhaust be enough to ignite to flame?
No. Nitrogen is not flammable.
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Is there an SCR kit for older buses to retrofit to the 2010 Emissions and do older buses need to be retrofitted to meet these 2010 emission requirements?
Not at the present time. It is possible that a system might be available at a later date.
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Is there an SCR kit for older buses to retrofit to the 2010 Emissions and do older buses need to be retrofitted to meet these 2010 emission requirements?
Not at the present time. It is possible that a system might be available at a later date.
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Are the components for the 2010 Emissions Cummins engines/SCR protected from rust and corrosion?
Generally speaking, yes. Much of the SCR system is stainless steel and impact resistant polymer.
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What is the life of the SCR system and its components?
The SCR system is designed to last the life of the engine.
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Does the 'stop and go' environment that we use in school buses have any affect on the 2010 Emissions system/SCR?
No. Duty cycle does affect the amount of diesel exhaust fluid used, but the system is designed with this in mind.
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What are the preventive maintenance requirements on the SCR system on the 2010 Emissions Cummins engine?
There are no preventive maintenance requirements other than a DEF filter that will need to be serviced at 200,000 miles.
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How many sensors are there on the 2010 Emissions SCR System for the Cummins Engine and a Thomas Built Bus?
2 NOx sensors, 2 temperature sensors and a diesel exhaust fluid level sensor.
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Do the 'Regenerations' on the 2010 Emission Cummins engines differ from the 2007 Emission Cummins engines?
There will be fewer regenerations in the 2010 engines vs. 2007 engines.
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Is there more or less carbon dioxide emitted from a 2010 Emission Cummins engine as compared to the 2007 Emission Cummins engine?
The amount of Carbon Dioxide emitted is based upon the amount of fuel burned. Because the fuel economy will be similar to 2007 Emissions engines, the Carbon Dioxides emitted will be comparable to slightly less.
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Why would Cummins not increase the compression ratio for 'in-cylinder' emission advantage versus an 'add-on' system with SCR?
This is because of design constraints for the engine. Increasing compression ratio alone cannot reduce the NOx level down to 2010 emission requirements.
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With the addition of the Selective Catalyst Reduction system will the bus be approved for operation in all states and provinces?
Cummins will submit to both EPA and CARB and through testing is planning on achieving certification in all 50 states.
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Where has testing been performed with engines in operation and in what conditions?
Cummins conducts field tests through many conditions and types of applications, from extreme cold in Northern Canada, mountainous duty cycles, and extreme heat in the deserts of the west. Cummins tests a variety of applications from stop and go applications such as bus and "Manhattan" duty cycle delivery vehicles; Cummins tests linehaul, yardspotters, and many different normal and extreme operating type scenarios. Winter Test in Bemidji was completed in 01/2009. Functional testing of prototypes, EMI testing, and durability testing will be conducted throughout the year.
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What is the added cost to the operator with the requirement to use stainless steel components?
Stainless Steel is currently used on all buses equipped with 2007 Emissions engines so there will not be a significant increase for stainless steel on 2010 Emission engines over 2007 engines.
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What is the difference in emissions exhausted from a 2010 Emission Cummins diesel engine versus a CNG fueled bus?
In 2010 the Diesel engines will be similar in emissions to what CNG is currently.
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Is the 2010 Emissions Cummins engine equipped on vehicles today and where can someone view any photographs of the exhaust system?
www.everytime.cummins.com
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Explain why the 'in-cylinder' solution caused condensation in the engine.
EGR must be cooled to a lower temperature to reach the needed emission levels. This causes condensation of the EGR gas before it goes into the cylinder.
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Can we have a shortened presentation/brochure illustrating the SCR solution benefits?
www.truthaboutscr.com and www.thomasbus.com have downloadable .pdf files that are very good.
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Why are Scania and Mann in Europe changing from SCR to Extreme EGR if SCR is the system that has been used in Europe for years?
North American and European markets took 2 different routes to attain reduced emissions. North America first approached particulate matter reduction with the use of EGR, and the European market addressed the reduction of NOx with the use of SCR. North American manufacturers for the 2010 emissions requirements will be affecting the reduction of NOx while Europe utilizes EGR to reduce their particulate matter emissions. Additionally, the EPA regulations are stricter than current Euro standards and new sources are now saying that Scania and Mann may need SCR to meet Euro requirements in 2013, which almost matches the EPA requirements.
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Has the Cummins engines that Thomas Built Buses to meet the 2010 Emissions requirements been certified to those 2010 Emissions standards?
Certification will be applied for in October. The certification will be available for viewing on the EPA website.
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Is it true that Europeans are moving away from SCR and toward Extreme EGR?
North American and European markets took 2 different routes to attain reduced emissions. North America first approached particulate matter reduction with the use of EGR, and the European market addressed the reduction of NOx with the use of SCR. North American manufacturers for the 2010 emissions requirements will be affecting the reduction of NOx while Europe utilizes EGR to reduce their particulate matter emissions. Additionally, the EPA regulations are stricter than current Euro standards and new sources are now saying that Scania and Mann may need SCR to meet Euro requirements in 2013, which almost matches the EPA requirements.
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There are concerns expressed that the copper zeolite used in the catalyst for the Cummins SCR system is a carcinogenic. Is this true and what is Cummins and Thomas Built Buses using in their exhaust system?
Cummins is confident that EPA will approve the copper zeolite for certification. All testing is showing 0 level carcinogens and the EPA has reviewed the data and is in agreement with Cummins testing processes and results.
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The warning and light system for the SCR and emissions system is concerning that it is complicated and confusing for a driver.
Today on an electronically equipped vehicle there are warnings and indicators that provide notification to the driver and/or technician. That is the case whether an operator is driving a car, a school bus, a truck or farm equipment. As our drivers of today have greater training provided to them on the part of fleets this notification process that was introduced would be a part of the driver training program. As introduced in the presentation, if the bus is serviced or inspected on a regular basis the refill of the Diesel Exhaust Fluid would become a part of that inspection process. Following this recommendation the number or necessity for notification indicators would be reduced compared to 'waiting for a low level warning' prior to refill.